MapFactor Forum

Rudi

Hello folks!
I'm using mapfactor navigator free for more than a year and I like it very much.
But the routing procedure and the speed handling still bear some secrets for me.

As far as I can see speed limits are disregarded more or less.
If I use the settings in the table below and use simulation mode, the actual speed is higher than the speed limits shown at the traffic signs.

Car setting: Car, no changes
Speed warning checked, 0 % over limit

Speed limit 30 km/h --> simulated speed 45 km/h, traffic sign shows 30
Speed limit 50 km/h --> simulated speed 54 km/h, traffic sign shows 50
Speed limit 80 km/h --> simulated speed 94 km/h, traffic sign shows 80
Speed limit 100 km/h --> simulated speed 109 km/h, traffic sign shows 100
Speed limit 120 km/h --> simulated speed 129 km/h, traffic sign shows 120

Streets without speed limits:
simulated "extra urban" speed is as set in the parameters of the car settings
simulated "urban" speed is completely disregarded --> Simulated speed is as set for "extra urban" in the car settings.

This happens with the free versions (OSM maps) for Windows & Android.
I checked this in and around Berlin - Germany

As I read in other posts here, it is not possible to handle "urban speed" right because there is no equivalent tag in the OSM maps.

But what about the speed limits? Why is the simulated speed much higher than the speed limit?
I'm afraid, not only the simulation mode is concerned but also the routing and the calculation for the time consumption of the route.

Oldie

"...but also the routing and the calculation for the time consumption of the route. "

That's why I adjusted the profile of my own car (separate profile) by substantials margins. I.e. inside towns from 18km/h to 25 km/h according to the importance of the road, preset for all roads is 50 km/h. Outside towns as well changed from preset speed to lower speed by a substantial margin. Route calculation is now only within minutes from reality.

hvdwolf

I did the same as Oldie. My estimate routing time has now an substantially increased accuracy.

IU0BMP

Different speed settings can affect the route chosen by the algorithm, not just the time...

hvdwolf

Yes and No.
Next to the speed setting you have the preference setting.
So you have to adapt them all in the correct way. With the speed and/or the preference.

Tule

I am afraid that Rudi is right in every point:

urban speed settings have absolutely no effect for routing and time estimation. It is just a meaningless value (for OSM maps!).

there is an obvious bug in use (or rather non use) of speed limits in OSM

hurdygurdyman

The problem is the missing of informations about urban status on street data in OSM. There are just punctual informations on roads, where signs show the beginning or end of urban areas.

IU0BMP

I believe what you said and I agree. I have not investigated much.. but I found that simply reducing the maximum speed of my car (115 km/h instead of 130 km/h) made Navigator choose a different route. With 130 as maximum speed, it decided for a faster but longer route using the ringroad around Rome which can be considered like a motorway, I think. When I set 115 as maximum speed it chose the route across the city center, slower but shorter. Well, that's normal, but it made me understand that these settings can affect the route chosen.

Perhaps, reducing all speed settings by the same percentage (maybe 25%?) can give good results without affecting route choice.

hurdygurdyman

I thougt about urban status of roads. One indication in OSM-data for them are the areal informations about landuse as residential, industrial and retail. If MNF would set the roads within these areas as urban, it could be a nearby workaround.

Oldie

"... urban speed settings have absolutely no effect for routing and time estimation. It is just a meaningless value (for OSM maps!)...."

I disagree. It is just not sufficient to decrease speed by only a few kilometers (or miles) /h.

"Im Stadtraum etwa liegt die effektive Verkehrsgeschwindigkeit (unter Einbezug von Stehzeiten der Verkehrsleiteinrichtungen, Geschwindigkeitsbeschränkung, Verkehrsstau und Parkplatzsuche) heute durchwegs um die 10–15 km je Stunde," http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisegeschwindigkeit

"In the city the effective speed of traffic is (taking into account downtimes of traffic control, speed limit, traffic congestion and looking for parking space) today 10-15 km per hour"

50 km/h is just nonsense.

Tule

@Oldie: I have even tried 0 km/h with no effect. Do you realy use free maps?

Rudi

Hello @all!

Thanks for your replys and hints.
I reduced the extra urban speeds of my car profile a lot and get much better results, even without changing route preference. In addition I set all urben speeds to zero. I really looks like it doesn't affect anything.

Here is my profile for "long distance" from top to bottom:
id (in xml-file): extra urban/urban;
0: 100/0; 1: 70/0; 2: 50/0; 3: 30/0; 4: 30/0; 5: 30/0; 6: 25/0;
The rest is diabled.
As a first try it works fine.

Rudi

Correction:
"I really looks like it doesn't affect anything." = Setting urban speed to zero doesn't affect anything.

Sorry!

hvdwolf

I0BMP said: "I believe what you said and I agree. I have not investigated much.. but I
found that simply reducing the maximum speed of my car (115 km/h
instead of 130 km/h) made Navigator choose a different route. With 130
as maximum speed, it decided for a faster but longer route using the
ringroad around Rome which can be considered like a motorway, I think."

Of course. That's exactly why I said you need to modify the road preference as well. If your topspeed is 110 and both trunks and primaries can (almost) offer that it will choose a primary or trunk road instead of a motorway.
So you lower the speed of a motorway (and trunk) and you increase the default preference of a motorway from 50 to 60. That way it will still try to use the motorway even though there is no speed difference. Simply because you favor a motorway (pref 60) over a trunk (pref 50).

So again: Change both the speeds and preference and make a good mix.

IU0BMP

Thanks hvdwolf, I understand! :)>- =D>

hvdwolf

What works well for me in the Netherlands (but also Belgium, France so far) are the following settings:
General topspeed: 115

                    default MFNF      mine

motorway         130    80    50       115    70    60
primary           90    50    50        85    50    55
major             85    50    50        80    50    52
secondary         80    50    50        70    50    50
local conn roads 70    50    50        65    50    50
lcl rd oh imp     60    50    50        60    50    50
local road        60    40    50        50    40    50
small local road    30    30    50
Note: I definitely don't say that these are the correct values, but they simply work for me. I have no insight in the exact routing algorithm Navigator uses, so for me it is also some guessing.
Note also that I added the "small local roads" which are switched off by default in Navigator. In the Netherlands however there are many suburban areas where the speed is 30 km/h. If I don't use that last settings I really see that Navigator is moving too fast to bigger roads in my city and other cities resulting in D-tours.

Edit: And it's really horrible to modify these settings with these mini sliders :)

chattiewoman

"Edit: And it's really horrible to modify these settings with these mini sliders"

Thank God we can also edit the xml file ;-)

hvdwolf

Yes, I do that too :) It can also be done from adb.
but for some that is a step too far.

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