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Tule

OSM highway=steps is allowed for cars in NavigatorFree

tomas

may be you have old map data?

Tule

16.6.2014, steps here were added a year ago.
Problem isn't with default Car, only when Other road is checked. But I think that Other road shouldn't include path, steps and other road types with tags access=no or motor_vehicle=no.

Oldie

Yes, car-routing never should use any way with tag motor_vehicle=no. Very simple rule.

tomas

with default car settings route does not go through steps

PrzemekSupak

This option is 'restricted' only for special cars, like ratrack (snow machine, snowcat, snowmobile, snow groomer in the mountains).
It is very useful.

Tule

@tomas Yes, but default car also does not go through tracks! So default is not enough for many drivers and countries. I agree with Oldie: the rule is very simple!

@PrzemekSupak Sorry I don't understand your comment, can you explain it :)?

PrzemekSupak

Have You ever been in the mountains? There are tracks, footpaths, ... and sometimes steps.

tomas

yes, I have been to mountains, but this discussion is about steps - if set as available for vehicles then route goes there, I cannot see why are you guys so surprised

Oldie

Surprise, surprise, those steps have the tag motorvehicle=no. So I don't why you assume, they are available for vehicles. They are n o t . So the route should not go there.

tomas

it does not with my version of maps

jacob

Well we try our best. At the moment there is navigation for bikes and
pedestrians also. So steps can be usefull if you're on a holiday and
walking anround a city you have never visited before :-). The solution
is probably to have more categories but that will take time and is not
an instant answer.

Tule

I think I'm finally beginning to understand, hooray =)) !
There is no difference between car, pedestrian and bicycle: what is important is only what type of road is checked/unchecked, am I right?
OK, it is certainly not very intuitive, but why not. More road types and more clearer road types is a must than. Steps shouldn't be in the same category as tracks, right? There are eight categories for roads accesible by car (why so many?) and only one for the rest!
I really like this nifty feature of Navigator (that the user has an impact on priorities of routing), it is what makes Navigator so exceptional =D> . So I am looking forward to any improvemnts!

tomas

you are wrong, pedestrian will have access to steps, but so does car if you set it to have access

Tule

Wrong? You have said the same as me I think! Or not!? I am really confused!

tomas

well, I suppose, reading it second time, I am saying the same thing
but I am not the one who can answer this fully
may be mdx can comment when he comes back

Tule

:) Many thanks for patience with me!

PrzemekSupak

Look at this way in Potlatch:

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=99998D3463B1F5F6&id=99998D3463B1F5F6!1068&v=3

and its restrictions:

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=99998D3463B1F5F6&id=99998D3463B1F5F6!1069&v=3

In this editor motor vehicles profil is 'unset'.

Changing it give You better routing.

I founded (steps) stairs with restrictions keys:

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=99998D3463B1F5F6&id=99998D3463B1F5F6!1070&v=3

and routing goes:

-with The Last Roads:

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=99998D3463B1F5F6&id=99998D3463B1F5F6!1071&v=3

-without one:

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=99998D3463B1F5F6&id=99998D3463B1F5F6!1072&v=3

So restrictions are important in routing ... on a snowy day.

tomas

I think that problem is that you guys would like one category for every possibility, but I do not think this is really practical, it would be to confusing for a standard user

Tule

@PrzemekSupak steps by default implies access=no, foot=yes see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Steps so they shouldnt be passable by default neither by car neither by bicycle.

tomas

may be, but that would mean another category
how many should we have?

PrzemekSupak

IMHO it is O.K., and great feature - by default 'Other Roads' are disabled, but if You know what You do, You can enable it, but please be carefully.

The same is with footpath - setting departure or destination, on the footpath, it is possible to route through restricted area.

But, as You see above, routing is not possible, if there are additional key(s) - restrictions.

As an example, I gave You routing in the mountains, snowy (snow-covered) track and stairs.

Tule

Przemek you are rigth! Cars cannot pass steps if there is an aditional key motor_vehicle=no! Its great! So the problem is a wrong import of steps by Mapfactor??

@tomas There are 9 now, I think 8 is enough:

Motorway, trunk
Primary
Secondary
Terciary
unclassified, residential, service
track
bicycle designated (cykleway...)
pedestrian designated (footpath, steps, sidewalks...)

Tule

9. snowmobile designated :)

PrzemekSupak

10. ... and of course sea maps, with different map projection, for kayak, canoe, small boats, yachts ...

tomas

why should unclasiffied and service roads be together?

Oldie

PrzemekSupak

July 17

Look at this way in Potlatch:..

In this editor motor vehicles profil is 'unset'.

Oops, when I checked that yesterday in ID editor, there was motor-vehicle=no

:(

Oldie

And just today I experienced steps are also allowed for bycicle. Three steps down one can do with bycicle but 10+ steps up? Okay you could carry your bike, what I didn't want to do.

But on the other hand I never would have used the proposed route without Navigator, but I find, except those steps it is a very smart route. I will use that in the future just avoiding the steps.

Tule

@tomas unclassified, service and residential roads are together by now. And I think there i really not much practical difference betwen them.

PrzemekSupak

Oldie

Oops, when I checked that yesterday....

Your computer knows the future!

(edit)

I think, that additional Key - restrictions, has stronger priority, than derivative of another Key.

hurdygurdyman

Tule wrote: unclassified, service and residential roads are together by now. And I think there i really not much practical difference betwen them.

I dont think so having a deeper look to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway

unclassified and service should be parted. unclassified is a "low-level"-road but allowed für every kind of traffic.

service are access roads to targets or within special areas like industrial estate, camp site, business park, car park, parking areas etc. To provide routing through, if the target is not reachable only this way, service should be parted from unclassified. Putting it together with track could be reasonable, because tracks also should be routed only, if the target isn't reachable through other ways and it's allowed for the kind of vehicle.

So we can provide routing through parking or industrial areas on service-roads as I got it sometimes, because they were some meters shorter than the official road and or without maxspeed.

That happened for example here http://osm.org/go/0DKkpjnq5-- routing from roundabout in North to Parkstraße in South.

hvdwolf

I fully agree with hurdygurdyman. Service roads and unclassified roads are really, really something different in OSM.

hurdygurdyman

I just found that thread http://forum.mapfactor.com/discussion/5862/road-types-navigator-12-vs-osm

and I think this discussion should be continued there, because now we dont talk about steps but road restrictions at all.

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