Stolpersteine in Germany (POIs)
  • Hello,

    because its a delicacy topic I will make it in my mothers tounge to avoid misunderstanding:

    In Deutschland gibt es in vielen Städten sogenannte "Stolpersteine" [deutsch: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Stolpersteine // english: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:memorial=stolperstein] zum Gedenken an Opfern des 3. Reiches.

    Nun tauchen alles diese POIs unter "Touristenattraktionen" auf. Je nach Stadt manchmal sehr viele. Mir scheint, dass die Liste der angezeigten POIs auf eine gewisse Anzahl beschränkt ist, sodass man ggf. andere POIs gar nicht mehr angezeigt bekommt.

    Bitte nicht falsch verstehen: Ich finde diese Stolpersteine durchaus gut und sinnvoll. Ich frage mich nur, ob sie in der Kategorie "Touristenattraktion" alle richtig aufgehoben sind und ob man diese ggf. weglassen/separieren kann.
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  • Translation by deepl.com:



    In Germany there are so-called "Stolpersteine" in many cities to commemorate victims of the 3rd Reich.

    Now all these POIs appear under "tourist attractions". Depending on the city, sometimes very many. It seems to me that the list of POIs displayed is limited to a certain number, so that you might not see other POIs at all.

    Please do not misunderstand: I think these "Stolpersteine" are quite good and useful. I just wonder if they are all in the category "tourist attraction" and if they can be omitted/separated.
  • Ich finde, mit den neuen POI Symbolen stören auch die Stolpersteine nicht übermäßig.
  • Es geht mir nicht um die Anzeige auf der Karte, sondern wenn ich "auf der Suche nach interessanten Punkten (in der Umgebung)" bin (POI-Liste)
  • "Stolpersteine" are listed in OSM as "historic=memorial" and "memorial:type=stolperstein". So it may be excluded only by the field memorial:type.
    This should be mainly a problem in Germany, because most Stolpersteine exist here. In city districts like mine, mb76 is right. If I check "wichtige Touristenattraktion" in POI I have nearly thirty Stolpersteine and one single other attraction.
    But I respect this as a responsibility for the German past. Last year I polished all the Stolpersteine in my district (maybe 80 or so; with some - little - help from others) in order to make them more visible again.
  • Ja, da muss die Deutsche Geschichte wieder herhalten ;)

    Aber im Ernst. Wenn ich in einer Stadt bin, dann will ich das Navi nutzen um mir TouristenATTRAKTIONEN anzuschauen.

    Und  JA, auch ich respektiere die Existenzberechtigung der Stolpersteine ansich auf jeden Fall. Nur ist es für mich nicht zwingend eine "Touristenattraktion". Zumal sich aus der Liste im Navigator (glaube ich) noch nichtmal ergibt, dass es sich um einen Stolperstein handelt. Mancher Nicht-Deutscher wird so schon vergeblich die "Attraktion" gesucht haben.

    Wenn ich mir explizit Stolpersteine anschauen möchte, dann gibt es wohl andere/bessere Möglichkeiten... (https://stolpersteinmap.de/)
  • I don't think MapFactor will change the program for a German peculiarity.
    But you could edit the names in OpenStreetMap.
    From e.g. "David Klebe" to "Stolperstein David Klebe"


    Ich denke nicht, daß MapFactor für eine deutsche Eigenheit das Programm ändern wird.
    Man könnte aber ggfs. in OpenStreetMap die Bezeichnungen ändern.
    Von z.B. "David Klebe" zu "Stolperstein David Klebe"
  • Es gibt there are 70.000 Stolpersteine, also so 70.000 Änderungen changes ...
  • Oder alle löschen :P. Nein, Spaß. Dann werd ich wohl damit leben müssen...
  • And it is simply not allowed to do this kind of additional tagging, simply because it is more proficient for a certain user(group).

    It would be much easier to extract them from the Germany osm.pbf and put them in a separate mca using digger. In that case you can only activate your own stolpersteine instead of all the POIs.

    Edit: They are also used in the north-eastern part of the Netherlands. I have no idea if this is reflected in OSM
  • @Oldie: "Es gibt there are 70.000 Stolpersteine, also so 70.000 Änderungen changes ..."

    70.000 in Deutschland allein oder auch in ....? Oder 70.000 in OpenStreetMap?

    Ich habe gestern germany-latest.osm.pbf heruntergeladen und durch osmconvert/osmfilter geholt und Ich habe 19496 gefunden in Germany "raw" map.

    =====
    Heute gehts nichts wegen der protest gegen "Die EU-Urheber­rechts­richtlinie bedroht das Internet und OpenStreetMap"

    Today no tool works due to the protest against "The EU Copyright Directive will harm the Internet and OpenStreetMap"
  • Okay, umbenennen war nicht die beste Idee...
  • Why not rename? "David Klebe" is the field "name". I wonder, if this field is very limited in its content. For me it seems, that one is somewhat free to fill with any content. But this will not avoid the spot to show up in the poi list either. It is just easier to read, what it means.
  • You have to make a distinction between the tagging and the name.
    The tagging is "historic=memorial"  and "memorial:type=stolperstein".
    The name is then simply and only the name, not the tag and the name.
    It is exactly the same as when someone would make a mass change putting the tag "garage" for every garage, or the tag "river" for every  fieldname like river Rhein, river Donau, etc.

    That is simply not allowed. Especially not if some small group of hikers find that every named path should have the name "path blah blah blah" or  "stolperstein David Klebe". If everyone would do that, it would become a total mess for all those POIs. 

    Next to that: the name is a worldwide standard.
    IF you want to do this, the best would be not to add it to the "name", but use the tag "name:de" like "name:de"="stolperstein David Klebe" (or maybe use the "nat_name"(national), or "reg_name" (regional) or "loc_name"(local) or "alt_name" (alternate).)

    Modifying this on a scale of 70.000 (or the 19.800+ I found) need to go via the OpenStreetMap change/import queue. If someone would do this as a bulk/mass change (probably with putting a lot of work in it) without announcing this, it would simply be rolled back. 
    (I have been in such a community where we imported ALL the Dutch house numbers and ALL the correct building layouts into OpenStreetMap for the Netherlands. The latter by replacing the "simple squares" and adding the missing ones)

    So I do understand the desire for people to have more clarity in "their" POIs, but then the best way is to make your own mca containing these POIs. I did the same for Skoda garages for which I created my own mca. I have a Skoda. It would be very convenient for me as Skoda driver to only see the Skoda (or VAG) garages. I guess a Ford or Mazda or Mercedes driver would like to see the same (or a stolperstein "hunter").
    It is  "open data" for the whole world, but that doesn't mean it is a "free for all to do what you want".
    There are rules :)

    EDIT: Ask it to the guy of POIBase/PoiPlaza. Maybe they can add a specific POI file for it,
  • I made a quick & dirty Stolpersteine.mca.The icon is too big and the "golden" stolperstein icon is brown for some reason.

    Simply copy it in your Android/data/com.mapfactor.navgator/files/navigator/data
    If you want to search, goto Search, Poi, imported POI, Select Stolpersteine
    (Suchen, POI, Durchsuche Importe)

    It contains 10996 Stolpersteine from the 19866.Maybe I'll take a 2nd look why.

    Download here.

    2nd run. Line 10996 contained a lot of double quotes (").
    Now the mca contains 19866 stolpersteine.
    Download here.

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